12 comments

  • philipov 1 hour ago
    > law enforcement officers and forensic experts were concerned that some iPhones were rebooting themselves under mysterious circumstances, which made it harder for them to get access to the devices and extract data.

    > iOS 18 comes with improved anti-theft measures. Three days w/o unlock, the iPhone will reboot, preventing thieves from getting your data.

    It's poetic, isn't it?

    • justahuman74 18 minutes ago
      I'd like to be able to specify much shorter times than 3 days, I could have my phone reboot every night while sleeping if possible
      • scojjac 3 minutes ago
        On iPhone, you can use the Shortcuts app to do this. Create a new shortcut with the Restart action and save it. Then go to the Automations tab, set the schedule, and select your new shortcut. Make sure it's set to Run immediately.
      • aryan14 9 minutes ago
        Very good suggestion, however I’m not sure if it’s healthy for a phone to reboot 365d/year?
    • starfezzy 28 minutes ago
      I would be ok with 8 hours during daytime, and some smart functionality for sleepy time. After all it’s just a reboot. I can’t remember the last decade I didn’t unlock my phone during the daytime.
  • arcticbull 1 hour ago
    Periodic reboots are actually a PCI requirement for payment terminals heh, basically every point of sale on the market reboots every 24h.
    • Gigachad 1 hour ago
      Seems like a good defence in depth strategy. These days most systems have a pretty good boot chain security, so after a reboot you know the system is in a valid state and any potential malicious changes have been flushed out.
    • paxys 1 hour ago
      And Boeing 787 airplanes
    • EasyMark 33 minutes ago
      Yeah I reboot my iPhone every weekend whether it needs it or not.
  • jsjohnst 2 hours ago
    Wish this could be reduced lower. If I don’t unlock my phone in a day, something is up and extra paranoia is warranted.
    • astrea 41 minutes ago
      After reading your comment, I was interested in whether or not I could achieve this through the built-in Shortcuts app. Unfortunately, "Restart" is not an available action.

      Edit: Actually, it's under "New Blank Automation" > "Shut Down" > "Restart". Thanks, @jwond!

      • elboru 28 minutes ago
        It’s so frustrating having a nice Shortcut idea just to hit a limitation right away.
      • jwond 21 minutes ago
        There is a restart action. You need to first add the Shut Down action, then you can change it to Restart.
        • RulerOf 2 minutes ago
          [delayed]
        • buzzerbetrayed 14 minutes ago
          Nice! Just created an automation to restart daily at 4:00am. Hopefully it works without user input.
        • astrea 15 minutes ago
          I'm so dumb. I didn't even click into the "Blank Actions" tile.
    • petesergeant 1 hour ago
      And for minimal hassle if you just hadn’t touched your phone. 12 hours would work great for me.
      • rcMgD2BwE72F 1 hour ago
        18h is the default on GrapheneOS IIRC. Got my phone stolen abroad days ago with tones of sensitive data and that features was a big reassurance. I set it to 6h I believe.
      • aaomidi 1 hour ago
        I think you may be able to do something like this with a shortcut.
        • HnUser12 1 hour ago
          Iirc reboot requires user input so you can’t automate.
          • itake 1 hour ago
            Yep. I tried to do it with a shortcut and it was basically a reminder to reboot that could be ignored.
  • gnabgib 2 hours ago
    Previously (36 points, 6 days ago, 24 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42090636

    Related Cops suspect iOS 18 iPhones are communicating to force reboots (234 points, 7 days ago, 288 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42081874

  • SoftTalker 2 hours ago
    If this is true, then it's a trivial enhancement to make that a configurable setting. 72 hours could be the default, if your security needs are higher, you could turn that down to 12 hours, or even less.
    • chatmasta 1 hour ago
      If this were configurable, I would make it 30 minutes and increase it if I noticed any inconvenience. But I doubt that I would. I already have my phone in permanent do-not-disturb (so a reboot causing delayed notifications wouldn't be an issue), and it's not like I mind entering my passcode instead of FaceID every 30 minutes.
      • karlgkk 1 hour ago
        I don't know where you live, but in the US it's basically understood by the courts that FaceID is not protected, but PIN is.

        So if your threat model includes the sort of attacker that has a phone exploit or the ability to confiscate it, you should not be using FaceID. Instead, consider using six digit PIN with auto-delete after 10 attempts. Also enable Lockdown Mode And if you use iCloud, enable Advanced Data Protection.

        • chatmasta 1 hour ago
          Yeah, I consider FaceID to be basically a time-limited vulnerability akin to "remember me," because unlocking is a matter of just showing your face. It's convenient and I like it, but I don't get too upset when it asks me to enter a PIN (although I am annoyed when it doesn't respond well to the "swipe up to enter passcode").
      • duskwuff 59 minutes ago
        30 minutes would be excessive. Keep in mind that the phone is unusable while it's rebooting, and that rebooting uses a nontrivial amount of power.
        • chatmasta 41 minutes ago
          Rebooting takes ~7 seconds and ideally only happens when I attempt to use it.

          But regardless of that.... why does it take a nontrivial amount of power?

    • itake 2 hours ago
      I agree, but it sounds like apple is choosing 72 hours to give time for the cops, because cops are more coordinated than criminals?
      • xethos 1 hour ago
        I wouldn't assume this is explicitely to help LEO, but more because this is (AFAIK) the first time this is being trialed by Apple. 72 hours is a touch long, IMO (and based on some comments, it's not just me), but when your update touches millions of devices, it's also best to test thoroughly and have the first iteration be too long rather than too short.

        It's easy to drop the 72 hours in a future update, or tie a shorter delay to (as I believe Apple calls it) Lockdown Mode - the more important thing might be to keep the "It just works" assumption most people (myself not included) seem to have vis-a-vis Apple products.

        Notably, I assume it will never be user-configurable directly. Possibly through Lockdown Mode ("If enabled then shorter delay"), but I wouldn't count on Apple adding an explicit setting.

        • macintux 31 minutes ago
          I’m betting it’ll be configurable via MDM.
  • Jiahang 10 minutes ago
    Sometimes when I turn off my iPhone for a while, it turns on by itself.
  • tlyleung 42 minutes ago
    I get that a locked phone needs to have everything already in memory, but what technical hurdles are stopping Apple from making a locked phone as secure as a rebooted phone?
    • Shank 21 minutes ago
      In the BFU state, notification previews, contact information for incoming calls, and other user-specific data is locked because it’s not decrypted. These things would also change the user experience dramatically, so that’s why Apple doesn’t do it.
  • ryandrake 2 hours ago
    Wonder how they've determined it's a deliberate feature and not some memory leak or something that takes 72 hours to manifest.
  • noident 2 hours ago
    This "novel" feature is already supported by GrapheneOS and set to trigger after 18 hours by default, with the option for the user to adjust it to their preference. There is no good reason to force the choice of 72 hours on everybody. That's a user-hostile design decision.
    • karlgkk 1 hour ago
      > There is no good reason to force the choice of 72 hours on everybody. That's a user-hostile design decision.

      It apparently only triggers if the phone hasn't been successfully unlocked for three days. So, it really isn't something most users will notice.

    • summermusic 39 minutes ago
      This is an essential feature for my personal GrapheneOS phone. I only tend to use it once or twice a day most days, which means it is usually freshly rebooted every time I go to use it.

      I remember reading somewhere that many new exploits in the mobile space only exist in memory and are thwarted by a simple reboot, including the infamous Pegasus spyware.

    • Twisell 1 hour ago
      It's probably more of a tradeoff.

      This longer delay won't prompt hectic headlines about users angry about random reboot, it is long enought so federal agencies won't publicly react and plea Trump for their backdoor again, and it is a low profile update that won't necessarily be noticed beside tech circles thus "small fry" bad actors won't know how to correctly cover their back.

      A user hostile design would have been to never implement it in the first place. It's basically Apple's signature to choose generic default value and don't bother the user (for the better and sometimes the worse).

    • chatmasta 1 hour ago
      Back in my day, this was a non-issue because our phone batteries didn't last more than 6 hours.

      (Although I guess this change applies also to powered-on phones? Which is cool... this is why I choose Apple products.)

    • mouse_ 1 hour ago
      I remember the first time I ever saw the camera flash used as a flashlight was a feature in Cyanogenmod 7. Wifi hotspot from your phone started as a Cydia app, when legitimate apps weren't particularly useful yet.

      Hacks have always brought the coolest features to phones, but OEMs have made them less accessible than ever :(

    • casper14 1 hour ago
      How is Graphene working for you?
      • rcMgD2BwE72F 1 hour ago
        GrapheneOS is great. I’m on iOS 18 for now (until I get a new Pixel after I got one stolen days ago) and I can’t wait to go back to GrapheneOS.
      • AzzyHN 1 hour ago
        Not OP, but very well!! The only things that don't work for me are Google Pay and Android Auto, which is a shame but I can live without both of those.
        • cubesnooper 1 hour ago
          GrapheneOS supports Android Auto now! I use it every day.
        • hmottestad 1 hour ago
          That kinda sucks. I don’t carry cash or a credit card anymore. I just pay with my phone.
        • rcMgD2BwE72F 1 hour ago
          Upgrade. Auto is supported now.
    • faggotbreath 2 hours ago
      [dead]
  • fatcow 1 hour ago
    Question: is the apple reboot seriously displaying a dmesg log?
    • wmf 1 hour ago
      I assume that's a Security Research Device. https://security.apple.com/research-device/
      • duskwuff 1 hour ago
        It is. You can see a SRD screen pop up briefly before the boot messages.
    • Twisell 1 hour ago
      I guess not in final release, but security researchers used the developer beta, probably with some verbose mode enabled.
  • latchkey 39 minutes ago
    what about my Apple Watch?
  • BenFranklin100 1 hour ago
    It annoys me to no end to listen to the Android/Google apologists claim that Apple does not care about security and privacy.
    • xethos 1 hour ago
      Presumably because they disagree about what should be kept private from whom, and whether the user should be allowed to be in control of the security of the hardware.

      Apple will vouch for applications running on, for example, MacOS. They'll check the developer's account is still in good standing, and will prevent apps from launching without this check. Sometimes this (arguably) helps. Other times it hurts [0]. And while I disagree with the choices made, these are valid trade-offs.

      Apple will tie things like the hardware for FaceID, to a specific phone, and require it be re-paired by an Apple authorized technician. Sometimes this is bad - just look at any Right to Repair thread. Sometimes this is good - Evil Maid attacks don't occur often, but it's easy enough (from Apple's POV) to block them that it would almost be irresponsible not to.

      There is room for these discussions, but it's geared more towards how one views general-purpose computing devices, IMO, and can't really be answered in a flamewar-style "Apple is evil" type of environment.

      [0] https://www.theverge.com/2020/11/12/21563092/apple-mac-apps-...