DOOM Over DNS

(github.com)

182 points | by Venn1 3 days ago

27 comments

  • umvi 1 hour ago
    > Cloudflare will serve them globally, for free, cached at the edge, to anyone who asks. They are not a file storage system. They were not designed to be a file storage system. Nobody at the IETF was thinking about them being used as a file storage system when they wrote RFC 1035. And yet here we are.

    Yeah these types of hacker stories kind of bug me. They are sort of in the same vein as "you can eat for free by going to McDonald's and eating a pint of ketchup without ordering anything" or "How I drank and showered for a year using public water fountains" . Or put another way "just because you can doesn't mean you should". Trustless societies kind of suck and forcing society to lower trust by abusing trust kind of makes things incrementally suckier ("trust" here being "it's on the honor system to not abuse DNS to serve static content").

    • Wowfunhappy 1 hour ago
      Look, if this was a project on using DNS to replace Dropbox or something, I'd agree with you.

      But the Doom demo really isn't that large, this isn't going to use or cost anyone substantial bandwidth. Cloudflare will gladly host significantly larger files for free the "normal" way using Cloudflare Pages/Workers. It's clearly just a fun proof of concept.

      • montyanne 1 hour ago
        I’ve heard rumors that DNS records are also sometimes used in some steganography-type communications. Great way of passing small messages in a ubiquitous and innocuous system, unlikely to be blocked or raise eyebrows by accessing.
        • oooyay 13 minutes ago
          I mean, kind of, but they're able to be cached easily and inexpensively in a way that kind of defies the intrinsic values behind steganography.
  • ktpsns 5 hours ago
    To clarify, a good title would be "Loading Doom entirely from DNS records"

    Neither one plays Doom over DNS nor is the first paragraph in the README correct, because DNS is only abused for storage, not for computing/processing/executing instructions:

    > At some point, a reasonable person asked "DNS resolves names to IP addresses, what else can it do?" The answer, apparently, is run DOOM.

    • drob518 5 hours ago
      Yup. A better title might be “Author discovers data can be stored in DNS TXT records which were created to store data.”
      • deathanatos 2 hours ago
        Data can be stored in A records, too, just less efficiently.

        (Or AAAA, or CNAME, or…)

    • akdev1l 5 hours ago
      Also we could probably achieve this by using dnsfs and regular doom install

      https://blog.benjojo.co.uk/post/dns-filesystem-true-cloud-st...

    • b112 5 hours ago
      You make me wonder if it is possible. All you need to do is to programmatically change bits, and you have compute. Some cache monkeying or somethong.

      Of course, I imagine it would be incredibly slow.

      • testaccount28 4 hours ago
        > All you need to do is to programmatically change bits, and you have compute.

        all you need is to rapidly push off one foot and land on the other, and you have running.

  • ttul 9 minutes ago
    My old late friend Dan Kaminsky famously wrote the Perl module "Ozyman DNS", which allowed you to tunnel ssh session over the DNS, thus evading certain firewalls such as those controlling access to public WiFi. Modern public WiFi setups filter the DNS too, rendering this technique moot, but I remember using "Ozyman DNS" to get WiFi access on the Caltrain and that was highly satisfying.

    https://boingboing.net/2004/06/21/tunneling-ssh-over-d.html

  • LetsGetTechnicl 5 hours ago
    This novel form of data storage reminds of me of this classic YouTube video, Harder Drive: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcJSW7Rprio
  • nasretdinov 5 hours ago
    Waiting for Doom over https://github.com/yarrick/pingfs next
  • kgeist 3 hours ago
    I once had this silly idea to create distributed storage of arbitrary data by exploiting a range of completely unrelated sites. Say, when you want to upload your file to the System, it may store one encrypted chunk as an image on a free image hosting site, another chunk as an encoded blog post on a random forum about farming (or in the user profile?), another chunk as a youtube video, etc. Imagine having something like hundreds or thousands of such "backends". Every chunk would be stored in 3 places for high durability of course. Free storage, hidden in plain sight :) Although, I didn't think through how to store the index reliably, and, because a moderator on a random farmers' site may delete our record(s), there needs to be a system which continously validates the integrity and reuploads the chunks.

    Maybe such a silly project already exists?

    • sillysaurusx 58 minutes ago
      You might enjoy reading through the original Google FS papers. I forget what they’re called but it addresses the durability problems.

      Ah, I couldn’t remember the name because it’s literally named Google File System. https://static.googleusercontent.com/media/research.google.c...

      I seem to remember bigtable also being interesting.

      More than that, you might enjoy MIT’s distributed systems course. It’s all freely available online. I went through it for fun a decade ago or so, and it’s worthwhile for reasoning through hard problems like this.

      People have definitely (ab)used YouTube as a filesystem though. And that’s probably your best bet for durability and performance.

    • noman-land 2 hours ago
      I've had this exact idea. Would need to be error encoded to account for chubks disappearing. There would be a rot rate as sites die or change.
    • naultic 2 hours ago
      lol now I wanna build this. It's like the dark web but without user or in this case, site consent. This could be a fun few weekend project
  • tombert 5 hours ago
    Gotta admit that it didn't occur to me that "can it run DOOM?" would stretch all the way to DNS.

    At this point I am wondering if people will somehow port DOOM over to the MONIAC.

    • FartyMcFarter 5 hours ago
      You were right to assume that in this case. DNS is not running doom here, it's just storing it.
      • tombert 3 hours ago
        That's fair. I guess "can it store DOOM?" is still an interesting question though.
        • antonvs 2 hours ago
          Is it? DNS has an explicit mechanism for storing data.
          • tombert 2 hours ago
            Ok well it was new to me ok!
    • bigwheels 5 hours ago
      Which is more ambitious, targeting the MONIAC platform or ENIAC?

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ENIAC

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phillips_Machine (MONIAC)

      I'd say both are looking increasingly doable.

    • sssilver 5 hours ago
      “Run” is doing a lot of heavy lifting at this point.
      • mistyvales 5 hours ago
        I remember the pregnancy test Doom. Wasn't it "running" on the display only?
        • deathanatos 2 hours ago
          Yes, I think it was, but that was also b/c, IIRC, the pregnancy tester had a CPU, too. A CPU can actually run things.

          DNS … cannot, and that's why the person upthread is criticizing the use of the word "run" here. DNS ran nothing.

    • TZubiri 5 hours ago
      Coming up: playing doom on Ping-as-Storage
  • kaitari 5 hours ago
    I never stop being impressed by these "<something-crazy> running Doom" posts. AFAIC, whenever we get to Mars, we won't truly have arrived until someone is playing Doom on Mars, and without wasting valuable resources by doing so. Running Doom, the canonical measurement of truly mastering a thing's capabilities.
  • lxgr 4 hours ago
    A database storing data? Now I’ve seen everything!
  • ge96 3 hours ago
    Tangent, harder drives by suckerpinch
  • hhh 4 hours ago
    very cool, i did something similar but turning the doom frame running on a server into ascii (with colour) and then a small shim to give inputs via subdomains

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GoPWuJR6Npc

    without the colour i did it in a worse way for bad apple

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJ2Q12vYojY

  • thestackfox 4 hours ago
    Respect. But also ... WHY????

    Now let's do

    (1) A DNS file drop: Split small files into TXT records and rebuild them client-side. Useless for big files, perfect for config blobs, tiny payloads, and cursed demos. Also someone can write an S3-compatible client.

    (2) Redis DNS:

    - GET foo.cache.example.com -> TXT record returns value chunks

    - TTL is the eviction policy

    - Cache invalidation becomes even more of a hate crime.

  • Sajarin 2 hours ago
  • didip 1 hour ago
    What is the serialization format? Base64?
  • hun3 4 hours ago
    Finally, a DOOM download that bypasses captive portals
  • nullbyte808 4 hours ago
    Malware could still use DNS records for storage and access to bootstrapped payloads correct?
    • thesuitonym 4 hours ago
      Yes, but it's not a problem, any more than downloading any arbitrary text is. You'd still have to have something execute the binary.
      • k_roy 49 minutes ago
        If anything, this would be more of a way to act as a command and control server
    • k4rnaj1k 4 hours ago
      [dead]
  • nimbius 2 hours ago
    blech...too much windows. bring me the Linux version and i might care ;)
  • jjlane 1 hour ago
    thanks for doing god’s work my friend.
  • vicapow 3 hours ago
    that SVG wow how?!
  • jjlane 1 hour ago
    thank you for doing god’s work my friend.
  • paulddraper 38 minutes ago
    "Author discovers that DNS stores data, and that data could be DLLs."

    Okay?

  • anthk 1 hour ago
    Another fake Doom run, like the predictor one. This doesn't actually run Doom. Sorry. Meanwhile, other esoteric platforms actually runthe software.

    There's the Infocom ZMachine with Zork I-III, Tristam Island, Calypso (Z machine v3 games) and many more which can be run starting from a PostScript file to a pen, a simple FPGA machine, an Amiga, the original Game Boy and who knows what.

    If you can port a libre interpreter, you can run it. Old PDA's, Smartphones, JS browsers, Windows 95 machines with Winfrotz, DOS, Raspberry Pies with GNU/Linux, Riscos... There are emulators even written in Perl, Python, Lua, tons of them. It's text based output and the Z machine format it's documented.

    I think some Activision games had the the Zork game embedded on their engine as an Easter Egg. As it's an 'easy' task for any programmer embedding it under a fake ingame computer woudn't have been a daunting task.

    Maybe I can adapt the PostScript one to Eforth under the Subleq VM, PS' syntax maps slightly ok to EForth...

    With Asterisks and some old modules you can even play it over a VOIP client and listen to the output with Flite/Festival/Espeak-nG or any compatible TTS software, such as PicoTTS. The voice input it's done with CMU Sphinx.

    Something Doom can't do at all.

  • kuberwastaken 3 hours ago
    This is so peak
  • cat-turner 5 hours ago
    Super cool. Never thought of this. Would this be useful for seeding LLMs?
    • FartyMcFarter 4 hours ago
      This is a data storage system, so I guess yes, data is useful to train LLMs?

      Why does everything get turned into an LLM discussion?

      • michaelsshaw 1 hour ago
        Does this LLM discussion support LLMs?
  • ethin 3 hours ago
    I read this title, did a double-take, then had to go look at the git hub because it still didn't click for me. Because this sounds absolutely amazing, and absurd, and weird, all at the same time. Like..... Wow? Talk about turning protocols into pretzels...
    • Sohcahtoa82 2 hours ago
      > had to go look at the git hub because it still didn't click for me

      Obviously it still didn't click for you or you're lying about looking at the GitHub, because if you did, you'd have learned that it's not using DNS to run DOOM, only to store it. Which...shouldn't really be a surprise to anybody who knows that DNS TXT records exist.

      • ethin 2 hours ago
        And obviously your forgetting that doing this is from my perspective a very novel idea and I didn't consider a TXT record as a data storage system. Good grief.