9 comments

  • edwin 16 hours ago
    There’s something quietly impressive about getting modern AI ideas to run on old hardware (like OP's project or running LLM inference on Windows 3.1 machines). It’s easy to think all the progress is just bigger GPUs and more compute, but moments like that remind you how much of it is just more clever math and algorithms squeezing signal out of limited resources. Feels closer to the spirit of early computing than the current “throw hardware at it” narrative.
    • wdbm 15 hours ago
      There is an absolutely beautiful rendering of the Mona Lisa encoded at some point in the digits of pi. If you know the position, it's really easy to plot the image.

      But first you have to find that position.

      • zoky 11 hours ago
        This is both simultaneously false, and true but largely meaningless. If you mean the Mona Lisa is somehow directly encoded somewhere in pi, then of course it’s not. It’s just a number.

        If you mean that when you feed the numbers starting with some offset of pi into a specific algorithm you will get a rendering of the Mona Lisa, then yes, but so what? Allow me to introduce you to the PiMona algorithm. I won’t bother you with the implementation details, but it takes exactly one integer parameter. If it’s 3, it produces a beautiful rendering of the Mona Lisa. Anything else and it generates random garbage. Turns out, it’s really easy to find where the Mona Lisa is encoded in pi! It’s right there at the start.

        But let’s say you meant that the digits of pi at some offset, when encoded properly and fed into any algorithm that is theoretically capable of generating the Mona Lisa will cause that algorithm to do so, then sure. But that’s also true of random noise, and says more about the algorithm and the nature of random numbers than about the Mona Lisa somehow being encoded into the fabric of the universe (which I’m sure isn’t what you meant, but I’m just saying there’s nothing really special about pi in that regard, except that as far as we know, it continues infinitely).

    • hammer32 14 hours ago
      Exactly. Working in a constrained environment invites innovation.
    • Unbeliever69 14 hours ago
      Now do this on a Casio Watch next :)
  • hyperhello 19 hours ago
    Hello, if there are no XCMDs it should work adequately in HyperCard Simulator. I am only on my phone but I took a minute to import it.

    https://hcsimulator.com/imports/MacMind---Trained-69E0132C

    • hammer32 17 hours ago
      I had no idea your simulator existed. No XCMDs, correct; everything is pure HyperTalk. I just ran a few training steps and they complete in a second or two. Thank you for importing it!
      • hyperhello 17 hours ago
        I gotta ask. Your scripts have comments like -- handlers_math.hypertalk.txt at the top. Are you using some kind of build process for a stack?
        • hammer32 16 hours ago
          More of a copy-paste process. The scripts are written as .txt files in Nova on my Mac Studio, then pasted one at a time into HyperCard's script editor on the classic Mac. The files are kept separate because SimpleText has a 32 KB text limit.
          • hyperhello 16 hours ago
            As an alternative, you might consider letting Hypercard itself open the text files and 'set the script of' as needed.
            • hammer32 15 hours ago
              Yup, that would have been easier. It's been decades since I've done anything with HyperCard. I had to re-take the built-in intro course again :)
            • jasomill 8 hours ago
              Would that overcome the size limit?

              Does HyperCard implement its on text handling for the HyperTalk editor that doesn't rely on the TextEdit toolbox service (which IIRC is the source of SimpleText's 32 kB limit)?

              • hyperhello 8 hours ago
                Fields appeared to use TE and I suppose the script editor was pretty much limited to 32 kB of text for that reason, although you could have any size of text in a variable.
                • jasomill 8 hours ago
                  Curiousity got the better of me, and I just tested it in Infinite Mac.

                  The HyperTalk editor is indeed limited to 32 kB.

                  It's certainly possible that this limit only applies to editing scripts, as it's unlikely TextEdit was used in the process of interpreting them, but I don't have time tonight to investigate.

                  Later versions of HyperCard supported OSA scripts as well, now I'm also curious what the size limit is for (presumably) compiled AppleScripts stored in HyperCard stacks.

  • watersb 11 hours ago
    This is great!

    I first studied back-propagation in 1988, at the same time I fell in love with HyperCard programming. This project helps me recall this elegant weapon for a more civilized age.

  • nxobject 10 hours ago
    I love this. From reading the nuts-and-bolts "parameters" (haha) of your implementation, I get the impression that the fundamental limit is, well, using a 32-bit platform to address the sizes of data that usually need at least 48 bits!
  • gcanyon 19 hours ago
    It's strange to think how modern concepts are only modern because no one thought of them back then. This feels (to me) like the germ theory being transferred back to the ancient greeks.
    • hammer32 19 hours ago
      Right? Backprop was published in 1986, a year before HyperCard shipped. Attention is newer, but a small model like this was buildable.
    • jeffbee 15 hours ago
      People did think of many of these core concepts decades ago, but they did not have the resources to put them into practice.
    • anthk 18 hours ago
      Lisp is from 1960's and with s9 you can do even calculus with ease, in an interpreter small enough to fit in two floppies.

      On the Greeks, Archimede almost did 'Calculus 0.9'.

    • kdhaskjdhadjk 17 hours ago
      I think it's incredible to see the potential that is still locked up in old hardware. For example the 8088 MPH demo. Amazing what he was able to do with an 8088 and CGA. All this time the hardware had that potential, but it took decades to figure out how to unlock it, long after the hardware was considered obsolete. Imagine the sort of things that might be done later down the road with hardware of 0-20 years ago if somebody really dug into it to that level.
      • ashleyn 17 hours ago
        Retro console homebrew and demoscene are all about this. There's a lot of fun stuff going on in N64 homebrew right now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNEo0aQkGnU
        • anthk 2 hours ago
          On the N64, an equirectangular viewer a la QT3D or the current street view is not precisely a wonder.. m68k's could do that at a similar resolution. It's simple 3D in the end.

          For the rest, yes, it's really astounding until you push these polygons while moving around in a game loop...

      • qingcharles 14 hours ago
        8088 MPH demo is revolutionary. I have a plan to try and backport the developments from that demo, plus other optimizations learned in the last 40 years, back into the original 8088 Elite PC version. I had Gemini Pro write a PoC using 8088 assembler to create a CGA flat-poly renderer for the ships, which worked great. Next step is to use Claude to disassemble the original Elite binary so I can figure out where the rendering code lives and try to start patching it.
      • andai 15 hours ago
      • anthk 2 hours ago
        They created a better Pacman for Atari 2600, better Outruns for Amiga's and whatnot.
      • tomcam 17 hours ago
        That 8088 MPH demo is a tour de force. Which tells you that the millions of Apple laptops being bricked right now instead of being recycled could have some amazing use if it were possible to wipe them clean and reuse. Sigh.
        • andai 15 hours ago
          Well, we've set it up so the survival of employees and their families is tied to old products being bricked.
  • tty456 14 hours ago
    Where's the code for the actual HyperCard and building of the .img? I only see the python validator in the repo.
    • hammer32 14 hours ago
      The stack is the code. You can view it directly for each button or examine the per-page script. As far as I know there isn't a compiler that lets you write standalone code and turn it into a stack. The stacks are dropped into Disk Copy disk images to preserve their resource forks. Both modern macOS and Git both strip resource forks, so the disk image is the only reliable container for distribution.
      • tty456 13 hours ago
        So a hypercard is compiled machine code of button clicks and key presses? Weird. I guess that could be macro'd somehow
        • hammer32 13 hours ago
          HyperTalk is an interpreted scripting language. The scripts are stored as plain text inside the stack and interpreted at runtime. It's kind of like a Visual Basic form where the UI and the code live in the same file. You can open any script, read it, edit it and immediately run the newly edited script.
  • rcarmo 12 hours ago
    Neat. Looks like I found my new benchmark for my ARM64 JIT for BasiliskII :)

    (still debugging it, but getting closer to full coverage)

  • immanuwell 15 hours ago
    The architecture of macmind looks pretty interesting
    • hammer32 15 hours ago
      Thank you! The constraints made it interesting. HyperCard doesn't have arrays, so the entire model, weights, activations, gradients, is stored as strings in hidden fields. All of the matrix math is done with "item i of field".
  • DetroitThrow 19 hours ago
    This is very cool. Any more demos of inference output?
    • hammer32 17 hours ago
      Thanks! The quickest way to try it is the HyperCard Simulator link someone just posted in this thread: https://hcsimulator.com/imports/MacMind---Trained-69E0132C — go to the Inference card, click New Random to fill in 8 digits, then click Permute. The model predicts the bit-reversed permutation of all 8 positions. The pre-trained stack gets all inputs correct.