Mario Meets Pareto

(mayerowitz.io)

194 points | by theanonymousone 2 hours ago

13 comments

  • demibabs 0 minutes ago
    This article isn’t quite accurate; acceleration is surprisingly unimportant in Mario Kart and not really considered a major factor when choosing a optimal combo. The optimal combo is solely decided on the basis of speed and mini-turbo. Otherwise good analysis.
  • __s 33 minutes ago
    > You probably won't pick a driver sitting on the edge of the frontier because you want some balance between speed and acceleration

    for super mario kart speedruns go with bowser/dk: https://www.speedrun.com/smk/runs/zp68nr8m

    That seemed to hold up for Mario Kart 8 too going with Bowser at the edge of their pareto frontier, https://www.speedrun.com/mk8

    needing acceleration is a skill issue

    • frantathefranta 27 minutes ago
      On the other hand, if you are a casual and want to dominate 99% races you enter at people's homes, pick Toadette (with Mr. Scooty). I don't think I've lost since 2019.
    • paytonjjones 8 minutes ago
      Speedruns are for playing the track solo, right?

      If you're playing normally (with other people and items), even the most skilled player can't avoid getting hit by some universal items and will benefit from acceleration.

      Hence, as the author notes, the balanced build with Peach being favored among competitive players.

      • crtasm 3 minutes ago
        The speedrun GP linked is in the all cups category, played with items and computer opponents. There's a video included.

        People do speedrun the individual tracks solo in other categories.

    • ChrisGreenHeur 29 minutes ago
      Adding skill is just another dimension to the calculation.
  • nwsm 5 minutes ago
    Nice article, I'm sad to learn that I shouldn't be using Koopa. How are Peach and Mario not dominated on acceleration by Tanooki Mario and Luigi respectively?

    Also, wonderful visualizations, but the change between blue and white backgrounds is really jarring to me.

    • SubiculumCode 3 minutes ago
      Koopa came out in offroad vs weight..without being that familiar with the game, I don't know whether that would ever be important enough to care about
  • jerf 49 minutes ago
    This is a really important concept for developers.

    One aspect for developers that I see quite often is the assertion that "We can't have X without giving up more Y", most commonly "we can't have more security without giving up on user experience". With the Pareto idea in mind, we can see that that statement is true, if and only if you are in fact on the Pareto frontier of security and user experience already.

    However, many times these confident pronouncements are being made when the system under question is quite evidently not on the Pareto frontier in the first place and indeed you can get more of one without giving up the other.

    Making it more tricky is that in business, you can never discard "money" as a dimension, so unless you're taking "money" as one of the dimensions in the original comparison you want to do, it sneaks its way in. Or, a composite time/money, or "cost to business", or some other similar concept, time & money aren't orthogonal and don't need to be treated as two separate dimensions in general, though you can if you want. Which puts you into the 3D case, and as the page says, that grows the frontier quite a lot, which is good in some ways and bad in others. Nevertheless, in my opinion it is still often the case that even in that space we are often making "tradeoffs" without checking that we're on the Pareto frontier in the first place.

    • voidhorse 20 minutes ago
      Yes, the difference between coding (writing software) and engineering (making informed trade offs about system design) is effectively bound up in analyses like those supported by concepts like pareto efficiency.

      One should keep in mind though that not all problems have a neat solution. Many spaces have multiple efficient points that still need to be chosen from, and many pareto optimization problems actually become NP hard computationally when the problem is large enough.

  • a3w 1 hour ago
    I did not understand https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49096439, but I understood this.
    • prvc 15 minutes ago
      I am the complete opposite of that. My attention wanes when someone fails to get to the point, instead dwelling in irrelevant details which are not intrinsically interesting. Have to muster the motivation to concentrate in such circumstances, and doing so is not enjoyable.
    • caxco93 1 hour ago
      I can only imagine the guy that made Mario Meets Pareto waiting for some Pareto related post to hit the front page before sharing his
    • applfanboysbgon 28 minutes ago
      It turns out a lot of things are extremely accessible to a lot more people when you teach them as concrete, relatable scenarios in simple language with useful visualizations instead of abstract X, Y foos and bars described with an unfamiliar jargon term every 3rd word. We really need to do better when it comes to pedagogy.
  • Retr0id 1 hour ago
  • Xirdus 44 minutes ago
    In Firefox reader mode, there's like 5 paragraphs of text. I am unable to digest the content on the website itself. Can someone confirm if the 5 paragraphs is the whole content or if I have large parts of it missing?
    • Levitz 42 minutes ago
      The article includes interactive graphs and scrolling animations that explain them, as well as data.
  • rakamotog 38 minutes ago
    This was fun, thank you
  • reconnecting 1 hour ago
    Thanks! Very useful information. I will never play for Bowser again.
    • Jepacor 48 minutes ago
      Once at a Mario Kart 8 tournament I was helping run there was a kid who had picked Bowser and max speed and he was struggling to make every turn.

      I switched him to the meta build and suddenly boom, he went from like 10th to 2nd against the AIs.

      It's kinda weird that you can shoot yourself in the foot so much when picking your kart in this game.

      • latexr 41 minutes ago
        > It's kinda weird that you can shoot yourself in the foot so much when picking your kart in this game.

        Nintendo optimises for fun, not competitive play. Infamously, to curb the competitiveness of Super Smash Bros (SSB) Melee, they introduce a random tripping mechanic in the following SSB (Brawl). Everyone hated it so they removed it in the one after that.

    • latexr 48 minutes ago
      It might still be the best option, depending on your play group. For example, if you’re in a play group with a bunch of novices and you’re destroying them, like finishing a full lap before the second place, choosing Bowser gives you a handicap. Lowers your chances of winning but increases fun for the group as a whole.
  • andai 1 hour ago
    Excellent. This is some kind of 3D PowerPoint. How did he do that?
  • Aeroi 45 minutes ago
    wow that took alot of work. nice job
  • suzukivenom 52 minutes ago
    beautiful site
  • ShinyLeftPad 1 hour ago
    The site is really broken on mobile.
    • superMayo 5 minutes ago
      Can you tell me what’s going on? I tried my best to make it work on every device, but handling mobile is hard, and especially when you’re messing with interactivity and 3D.
    • voidnullvalue 1 hour ago
      I cannot be the only one who atrongly dislikes this bloated web design. I hit back after scrolling a bit
      • andai 1 hour ago
        Until recently I thought I hated sites that messed with the scroll out of principle, but then I found a handful of them that do a good job of it. This is one of them.
        • kfarr 52 minutes ago
          The key here is to have a foreground layer that always responds to scroll and informs the background layer based on its position
    • rtrigoso 59 minutes ago
      Also on Firefox android and working great. What's your browser/os?
    • phoghed 13 minutes ago
      Works wonderfully on iPhone
    • fnordian_slip 1 hour ago
      Works for me with Firefox on android and ublock origin.
    • rokkamokka 1 hour ago
      Works for me in Firefox on Android anyway