It will be interesting to see how these cars perform over years and decades. One of the major cost saving mechanisms BYD uses is lumping components together. An issue with one part of the drive train means the whole drive train may need to be replaced. The battery pack being part of the chassis means a small accident could become a write-off. Initial cost savings at manufacture will be passed on to the owner in maintenance.
That doesn't seem to be too far off from the status quo for typical American cars, which are fully capable of being totaled by a collision that only damages the bumper.
that's the new reality with a lot of modern vehicles. i'm not naming the brand here but a guy who's very familiar with one of the EV brands' manufacturing process told me the same thing that you posted. even a small fender bender is more than enough to total a car.
For an iPhone or Mac I can accept most things being binded together. I can’t for a car that I expect to be able to keep for a longer period of time. I can buy another phone relatively easily not a car. I feel that this goes for most people.
Comparing it to the US isn’t really meaningful considering the EV market here is on life support.
Federal subsidies were eliminated. Funding for charging infrastructure and battery manufacturing was rolled back. ICE emission regulations were repealed. Individual states were barred from enforcing their own standards. EVs are down to 6% share of new vehicles sold.
Most domestic manufacturers have given up on EVs entirely and written off their investments. Tesla is the only one standing, and their US sales have also been falling for the last couple years.
Looking back 2024 is probably going to be the peak of the US EV market.
This post really fails to go beyond basic headlines.
> Federal subsidies were eliminated. Funding for charging infrastructure and battery manufacturing was rolled back.
These are both signs of a maturing market. It's a good thing that DCFC operators like Ionna, Walmart, etc. are still charging ahead at a pretty rapid pace, even without federal funding. Ionna especially has been deploying at a crazy speed.
> Individual states were barred from enforcing their own standards.
Litigation on this is still playing out. If car manufacturers aren't planning for these to swing back into force with a change of government, they are fooling themselves.
> Most domestic manufacturers have given up on EVs entirely and written off their investments.
Again, not true. Some investments like battery manufacturing, sure, but that's not what they were ever good at. GM has a pretty robust line of EVs, and Ford has bet big on their new platform underpinning on their new 'affordable' truck.
> Tesla is the only one standing, and their US sales have also been falling for the last couple years.
2023 was a stand out year for them, but it's not like they are falling off a cliff. We should expect Tesla sales to fall as other competitors like Rivian, Hyundai/Kia and even Toyota/Subaru release updated offerings.
Ideological reasons, yes, but the fact remains is the EV market is still standing on its own. Sure, the EV market is not growing anywhere near as fast as other parts of the world, but it is still growing. People talk about their EVs and it's becoming clear to even to people who don't have one that they are useful vehicles.
Every once in a while people ask about cost and discover that for most people charging in your garage is significantly cheaper than anything else and charging on the road is still cheaper than gas and while it does take longer it's not too bad.
And as was pointed out, there is every reason to believe that there'll be a change in administration in the federal level in a few years. And once again, the rules will change. The car manufacturers are going to keep building what they know and have good investments in. But they're going to keep investing in EVs both because in the world they're important players and also because they know the government will change and with it their rules and they don't want to be left behind.
Likewise, Musk's Sieg Heil and association with Trump didn't help- instant ~25% drop in sales (60% in Europe). It's like when that Campbell's executive said their soup is "shit for fucking poor people".
Hmm. 16 million cars sold in the US each year. 1.2 million EVs sold each year. "Maturing" at less than 8% market share is not a good sign.
> Litigation on this is still playing out...these to swing back into force with a change of government
Have you not lived in the US, like ever? It will take anywhere from approximately a decade to never to claw back even a fraction of an progressive legislation or regulation.
> We should expect Tesla sales to fall...when [vague new things come out]
So why have EV sales in the US been dropping almost every quarter since 2024, from a peak of ~10% of new sales down to under 6% today? Is this the “mature market” you are referring to?
For comparison, that number is 53% in China and 60-70% in most European countries. In Norway 97% of new sales are EVs.
It all makes sense when you realize that the global fossil fuel industry is going all-in on their hold out market, the USA, with astronomical levels of corruption and propaganda to keep the gas guzzlers guzzlin'.
Besides the end of the tax credit, EVs are still quite expensive in the US and there's been a jump of used EVs flooding the market (mostly from corporate fleet offloads)
> So why have EV sales in the US been dropping almost every quarter since 2024, from a peak of ~10% of new sales down to under 6% today?
Because a lot of Americans lacks financial literacy (i.e. everyone buying a brand new ICE vehicle).
Even before that godforsaken war it made no financial sense at all to buy an ICE vehicle for most purposes. Now with that war and its effects wrecking the fossil fuel markets, it's even worse.
That's just false. I don't think US automakers outside of Tesla have done well with EVs to date, but Ford went back to the drawing board a few years ago and is now near to releasing it's revamped EV platform that they believe will be actually competitive: https://www.fromtheroad.ford.com/us/en/universal-electric-ve...
Charging infrastructure is blossoming. It is funded by private companies. Roadtripping in an EV is pretty seamless now. I'm driving to Death Valley in a couple of weeks. Plenty of charging options along the way.
Because funding for that network was provided for the several years before these changes were made.
They didn’t put money to rip out existing infrastructure and funding (let’s not give them ideas). It’s future EV charging growth and maintenance that will be affected, and its impact will be felt years from now.
Yeah Ford killed the f150 lightning because it appealed to no one. Trades people didn't want to fuck with charging their vehicle. Normal people didn't want to pay 100k for a truck.
Their new one is very interesting. I wanted an electric truck when I bought my most recent one but just couldn't afford it. If it's 30k for the base, figure 40k with bells and whistles. That makes it super attainable with a decent trade.
The government is also trying to sell regular Americans paying a handful of oil companies a lot more money for gas, and the subsequent increase in profits for those oil companies, as a huge win for America.
They’ve been boasting about American oil companies having higher profits.
If Trump hadn’t petulantly killed the EV subside, hundreds of thousands of additional EVs would be on American roads today. That’s hundreds of thousands of voters who wouldn’t be reacting to gas prices.
Our lucky streak as America—Russia blowing itself up, China going wolf warrior right when they needed to build alliances—may continue in our wannabe fascist being so fucking stupid.
> Our lucky streak as America—Russia blowing itself up, China going wolf warrior right when they needed to build alliances—may continue in our wannabe fascist being so fucking stupid.
You are decidedly not on a lucky streak.
Your Dear Leader just threw the US into yet another incompetently waged war on the other side of the world, he tore apart bridges with virtually all allies the US had, including Canada of all places, his reckless usage of his powers to influence corporate decisions (i.e. the ICC sanctions and DoD/Musk throttling Starlink/Starshield for Ukraine) made everyone realize they need their own alternatives not beholden to the US for literally anything, the AI bubble growing uncontrollably while the QE money injections never got taken out of the system is setting you up for a financial disaster that will make 2007 look tame...
USA bans the onboard Chinese automotive software for national security reasons, effectively banning Chinese cars.
For all the talk about data and technology sovereignty in Europe about USA tech, you would think they would take that more seriously too. Instead Europe is flooded with underpriced Chinese cars that they have no control over.
There can be several motivations that are all equally valid. We should ask Europeans if they think national security has become a major concern in the face of their overwhelming reliance on USA technology and services.
I've been in a few BYDs as a passenger, I actually cannot fathom people spending money on them considering how low/cheap quality the interiors are. Like those garbage thin fake leather seats will have to be replaced within a year of use tops. Oh and also we broke the trunk's bedding by putting a mere 40kg bag in it, it just straight up collapsed.
I'm sort of reminded of the Regular Car Reviews review of the Geo Metro, where he spent the first maybe 5 minutes of the video trying to manage viewers expectations. So he talked for a while about judging a thing based on how good it is at being what it's trying to be, not how bad it is at being something else. And then he talked for a while about how the Geo Metro's entire purpose is to be as economical as possible.
And then he spent the rest of the review talking about all the features that people typically hated on, but in a positive light. Because if your primary goal is to make the cheapest car, with the highest fuel economy, for the benefit of people who don't have a whole lot of spending money, those were exactly the design compromises to be making.
The average consumer isn’t going to buy an electric car for climate reasons - they’re going to buy it to save money. So they want it cheap and they want to not have to wait ages for it to charge. The Chinese cars deliver on both fronts (provided sufficient infrastructure for fast charging). If the car doesn’t last 10 years that’s okay if they’re saving enough money.
If you want to save money, you either buy from a domestic brand or a used Toyota Yaris and squeeze out as many miles from it as you can while having the option to use a local mechanic. Electric cars still make up a small minority of the market.
In the US sure, thanks to laws preventing Chinese EVs. But look around at other countries.
In Australia, EVs are now 25% of the new car market, that's far from a small minority.
And sure a used Toyota Yaris might be cheaper for now but it won't be for long. A new Yaris starts from around $30k, you can buy multiple new EVs for cheaper than that. Which has caused downward prices on used EVs, you can buy a 2nd hand Nissan leaf for $6500.
And due to our abundance of rooftop solar much of Australia have access to domestic electricity plans that have hours of free usage a day, meaning if you can charge at home you can charge for free which really pushes the value proposition further
The average American could save a couple thousand dollars per year in fuel costs by driving an electric car. Over 12 years that could pay for a cheap electric car. If you drive a lot more than average, you would save even more money.
It's bringing EVs to the masses. There's so much potential in places like Europe and Latin America, where most consumers don't drive big SUVs and trucks. Apparently battery packs were about $1,200 per kWh in 2010, today it's $140/kWh. EVs are finally becoming mainstream
I don't know the model exactly but every Uber (maybe six of them?) I was in in Mexico City was the same model BYD and it was really plasticky and they all rattled on every bump in the road.
Maybe their more expensive models are better but they're damaging their brand putting it on those cars.
> spending money on them considering how low/cheap quality the interiors are
Because that's the point. It's a cheap reliable car that cut corners for high $$$ ROI fleet cars. There's reason most of PRC taxi fleet converted to BYD EVs over last 10 years. It's statistically battle proven and economical, they'll 500,000km like ICE fleet cars and save 30k USD - on fuel + maintenance savings alone you can buy another 2 fleet BYDs. Like a fleet operator would have to be economically stupid to not go for BYD tier EV. You get to enjoy cheap seats.
Bought a BYD, cross shopped it with some Mazdas and Toyotas. For less money we got more fruit, a full BEV and the Japanese brands materials were equivalent or worse.
Toyota interiors in particular are hard plastic monstrosities.
It's really not much different than most cars people use every day. Nothing weird is happening with my seats. (Sealion 7) And I put 40kg+ in the boot without problems either. I've not seen reports of this being a problem overall - maybe you just got very unlucky?
I get not liking something for personal preference reasons, but going as far as garbage and cheap quality in this case just... doesn't match reality. It's a perfectly fine car that works. Lots of people are happy with it.
I can. There’s no other equivalent in south east Asia. They are consistent, they are cheap to operators, they have a viable and trusted dealer network and are cheap to purchase with immediate upsides.
Have you priced a similar car like a Toyota vios or Yaris or Honda hrv or brv. These are ICE and gas is what, in the Philippines 2$.gallon?
The only viable alternative that is non Chinese for South east Asia is ironically Vinfast, which are available in the USA and quite ibexpensively.
If you’re biggest claim is the “sear” and the “trunk bedding” you are missing the entire point of what this car is and it’s market position.
Unlike Teslas, several that I've been in had a small display that showed things like current speed in the traditional position behind the steering wheel. Only having that large, center display in newer Tesla's freaks me out. I haven't driven one myself but it seems very unergonomic.
I've been in 6 or 7 between Spain and Indonesia (Uber/Grab). All of them had RGB mood lighting, enormous center displays, large digital gauge clusters, full pano sunroofs, good materials, good sound isolation from outside, and great AC. It's not a surprise the big three in the US are lobbying so hard to keep them out of the US... they'd be obliterated.
40 kg is nothing? A feed bag? A lead-acid battery? My backpack? I've put far heavier things in the back of our cars - generators, compactors, engine blocks - without a buckle or a scratch to show for it. That's in European-style station wagons like Skoda Octavia or Volvo V-series.
I was in Montevideo this weekend and all car service cars I rode were Chinese EVs. They all seemed great and when I had Claude look up pricing they were all very well-priced. While I myself would loe a BYD Seagull or Dolphin, the more expensive ones like the Greely EX5 looked much cooler than much more expensive cars I see on roads in the US.
I live in Punta del Este, we just bought a Geely and a BYD (both) coming from a VW ID.3.
For BYD, a Dolphin 2027 for 21K + VAT. Insane value, by extreme far the best price-perf vehicle in the country’s history. Has every single little thing you might want. For that size and price, at least.
Notably, Tesla is attempting to destabilize the local market, coming in at 30K+VAT for the Premium Model Y which is cheaper than the US, Europe and pretty much anywhere.
I still prefer BYD by far, and not supporting the “controversial fellow”.
At a 20x electricity to gas price ratio (depending on factors, but yes), EVs are key here.
Not sure why you're throwing so much shade at people as though only poors would look at cars below forty thousand dollars. The 2027 Camry and the 2027 Escape both start at under $30,000. Tesla 3 is under $39,000.
Not everyone likes to blow 50-100 grand on an asset which loses 50% of its value in 3 years. Especially considering how much they're trending toward being so expensive to repair and unreliable that keeping it on the road after the warranty runs out is also expensive.
Nobody uses that expression to mean they would prefer to spend more, unless it's in the context where the number is so low that it implies a safety or fraud issue. e.g. "I would never buy a 5 cent burrito"
There's little point in spending more than $ 40,000 - especially for the crap currently being peddled in the U.S. I bought a 3-year-old electric luxury SUV with significantly under 20,000 miles for well under that.
I mean, if you're rolling in money, and don't need it for savings or more important purposes, you do you. But I'm with GP. 40,000 is excessive. Even in our devalued 2026 money.
i would love to spend >$100k on a great electric car, idk if they're quite there yet and the rocket boosters aren't doing it for me in the tesla line up lol
Still needs a step change upgrade on the battery tech
Nobody cares what you would personally spend on a vehicle. The point is that it's a very good value, relatively speaking, for a new vehicle of its class.
The person was asking me if I had seen a specific car and I gave them my reaction to that car. BYD has cars I want that they sell for ~$15k in China which look like a much better value to me.
The tariff thing is a bit misleading if you're not familiar with the industry. Kia/Hyundai produce some of the "most domestic" vehicles on the market. Hyundai EVs were beating all American brands (incl. Tesla) by domestic content when the tariffs came into effect. Those lines are very well positioned to accommodate them.
The article is talking about a certain specialty model that's only produced in Korea, probably because it's low volume.
The reason is there's fierce competition between automotive companies in China.
Markets elsewhere that consolidated down to the 2 or 3 domestic champions that settled into a comfortable coexistence with their domestic "competition", and are coddled by protectionist government policy will have a hard time remembering how to compete for real.
Is there a reputable summary that explains the cheaper sales price? I'm having a hard time believing it all boils down to politics, but there's way too much noise in the way.
Why BYD is cheap? They're heavily vertically integrated, they're ruthless about cutting production costs, they operate in an environment with more manufacturing talent than anywhere else, and they're a young company without many legacy costs.
What most folks in the USA don't understand, BYD manufactures two types of vehicles. One type is for the domestic market (cheaper and dangerous), the other is for export (meets some semblance of safety). I have heard that the export models are built to higher standards and are more dependable, hence the higher price than domestic models.
You are repeating years-old news by now. It’s true that the 2022 through 2025 model years had the ICCU problem, but they improved the ICCU design in 2026, with both better hardware (heavier duty power electronics) and better software (slow start for 12V charging).
Of course time will tell whether this brings failure rate down to be negligible. But I feel pretty confident.
I've yet to see an actual premium EV akin to the ICE cars from Lexus, Acura, or Genesis.
In fact that's my problem with all EVs because EVEN Lexus, Acura, and Genesis is not sticking to their premium quality when they release an EV version of their ICE cars. The Lexus ES ICE is legendary. The Lexus ES EV looks like a plastic coffin with 2 tablets. It's probably the zeigeist of car designs and/or my taste but I feel all EVs look the same without much personality. Not even mentioning the chinese brands because Geely, Leapmotor, BYD etc all look the same to me.
Say we have a Lexus LX 600 https://www.lexus.com/models/LX Why does this car can't be released as is, the same design and same interior but with an EV drivetrain?
It is consistently funny / revealingly human the lengths people will go to bad-mouth something they're irrationally biased against in order to not appear irrationally biased.
My extended family has three EVs now, and they're fucking great for our needs. They get us to where we need to go, and save us at least $350 a month in fuel.
Having said that, we're in the exact scenario pocket where EVs make sense: We can charge at home overnight, our daily commutes are 50km maximum, we have solar panels and cheap overnight electricity rates, we don't need to tow anything pretty much ever.
EVs are less niche than they were, but they're still not as commodity/utility friendly as ICE cars, but the niche is growing quickly. Interestingly, the haters I've encountered rapidly soften when they actually experience driving in an EV - they're still a ways away from looking to buy one for themselves, but they're noticeably less militantly/irrationally opposed than they were.
Caveat: 1 of the EVs is a 2014 Nissan Leaf, which is at about 80% of its original range. The other two are less than a year old Chinese EVs, and so I can't and won't speak to long term reliability - that's definitely a risk we were willing to take, and won't know whether it was worth it until a few years down the track.
Have you had a chance to ride in the Chinese EVs? Opinions on exterior designs are pretty subjective and change a lot over time (see: Porsche 996). I've driven and ridden in a lot of Chinese EVs over the past two years and find them much more luxurious than ICE cars across the price range. Most of them have huge panoramic sunroofs now that make even the small cars feel open and spacious, the technology is actually useful instead of a gimmick (Chinese navigation apps are way better than western ones, which is a big deal when the primary interface is a tablet), many of the cars can autopark/drive, they have cameras for all the blind spots, USB-c and magnetic chargers everywhere, fast charging, etc. etc.
I would encourage anyone that lives in America or Europe and hasn't been to China in the past five years to go see it for yourself. Take what western media writes with a grain of salt - you might be surprised.
Car makers can't win! Release an EV with "personality" aka looks different from an ICE, and people will complain why can't they make an EV that looks like a normal car. Release an EV that looks like a normal ICE and someone's going to complain it has no personality. Ah well.
I think it's a huge regression vs. the goofy looking i3 (which is carbon fiber, has a working jog wheel, etc). The i4 is basically exactly a modern BMW sedan, but an EV. I think they moved to a platform that lets them just switch between ICE, hybrid and EV. You can even set the safety tone to make it sound like a BMW with tuned exhaust pipes.
My i3 is my favorite car ever. If it looked like a BMW I would have never considered it. The i3 is such a pure design statement.
The only other ev I would describe that way is the now defunct Canoo.
thats because there is zero demand as has been all over the news the past years. the european and especially german car industry wasted billions on EV strategies that now have to be rewound because it turns out there is basically zero demand for expensive EVs. people that can afford expensive cars want ICE.
Luxury seems like a tricky move for EVs. All those extra features add weight, which eats into range. I would guess that undermines your own sales pitch because people who want to spend a lot on their car are generally going to be people who expect to spend a lot of time in their car.
I imagine it's just a fundamentally more palatable compromise for an ICE vehicle. You maybe bump the size of the fuel tank a bit and assume your clientele aren't going to be all that much more cost sensitive about fuel than they are about sticker price and maintenance.
And the United states is likely to never get them. Unlike the chicken tax with light trucks, I wouldn't be surprised if the BIG 3 are so afraid they lobby to completely block them from ever being built and sold here.
I would hazard that they'll buy their way into the local market: partner with a Big 3 manufacturer, build a plant somewhere in the South, and then sell a car 50% more expensive than what they sell in Mexico.
I've been seeing more and more JAC small pickup trucks (diesel though, not electric) around Austin lately. I think people are bringing them up from Mexico.
- The world’s largest electric vehicle maker will expand its fleet of car-carrying cargo ships to 18 from eight by 2029, according to shipping industry reports. Each new carrier will have the capacity to carry about 9,200 cars and will be built by China Merchants Industry.
- Owning its fleet could cut BYD’s cost to ship each car abroad by as much as 40% compared with renting carriers, according to one industry estimate. BYD’s increasing export capacity could help it push further into global markets, intensifying competition for automakers including Tesla and traditional U.S. brands.
- BYD aims to sell more than 2.5 million vehicles overseas in 2027, extending its rapid international growth through a larger shipping fleet and increased production abroad
- Its Indonesian plant has started production, its Brazilian plant is ramping toward annual capacity of 300,000 vehicles, and its Hungarian plant is expected to begin assembly in November or December, Deutsche Bank noted.
I would say it's actually more complicated than that. Here is a good video that goes over the situation, and multiple perspectives on it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nim61oVLdwk
TL;DR They severely reduced the number of components by integrating parts into larger pieces. This trades upfront cost savings for longevity concerns and repair prices down the road.
One could argue the US wants to ban them solely because it undercuts other manufacturers, but there's more.
You can also argue it's not good for many other people, like:
- the average consumer (that expects a quality long-lasting product)
- the insurance companies that will be footing a lot of the repair bills
- independent repair shops that either won't get those jobs, cannot actually perform the work due to tech/service monopolies, or simply lose revenue because the work is shorter
Sortof. There's no guarantee they wouldn't lose customers/revenue if everyone started buying BYDs or NIOs... they could decline to insure those cars at all due to the high repair cost, or not cover all of it, and that affects more than just themselves.
We already have stats for Tesla Model 3, and they rarely have problems with the battery and propulsion. So it's a trade-off, fewer parts also mean that you can overengineer them more easily.
There are also third-party replacements available now, because it's not that hard to manufacture most EV components, outside the critical high-voltage paths.
It’s amazing to me Waymo saw the estimated 50000-80000 tariff penalty (and time and money invested for essentially reinstalling electronics ) in their latest fleet worth it. American sourced options must really pale in comparison or be non existent and I wish I could just write off auto tariffs like that.
No amount of fucking banning will work and the US is going to end up with egg on its face when the entire world is using chinese everything and the US is still trying to banhammer. The entire world has started shifting away from the US, not in a positive isolationist way -- in an uncompetitive, stagnating innovation way.
The only way out is through competition and this lesson will probably only be learned when its too late to do anything about it. Everybody saw this coming
The west doesn’t want to move forward and instead are doubling down on fossil fuel energy. It’s so sad. Car manufacturers have succeeded in lobbying out change and making your vehicle a subscription.
The real story here is the splintering of "the west". The US doesn't want to move forward, but UK, Europe, AU/NZ all do.
It's not clear to me where Canada stands on this issue. I know they're an exporter of fuel to the US, so perhaps they are more US aligned on this?
Sadly, I think this highlights the problem with Carney's middle powers idea - it's difficult to all work together when you have competing interests.
As far as anecdotal evidence from AU, in the last 12 months the number of EVs on the road has exploded. Only a year ago, maybe a bit longer, I'd specifically notice the odd BYD here or there. Now, you can't get stuck in traffic without having a couple of them within ten metres.
Tesla's have been around the place for a while, but are also increasingly present, but are a greatly decreasing percentage of EVs.
The west? As far as I am concerned, EU moves towards EVs as well. Not as fast as China does, but it does. It's the US that doubles down on ICEs (pun intended).
Check and see where VW, BMW, Citroen and Peugeot are with regard to EV production vs ICE. They are no where near 'wanting to leave the past behind' as it would mean lots of mittelstands losing out and lots of jobs evaporating.
China is the one doubling down on fossil fuels. They are commissioning several coal plants. Meanwhile, the us is still reducing CO2 emission (us is currently at pre-WWI levels) and the mix of renewables is increasing.
Coal is a stopgap for china. Until their renewables expansion can sustain their growth targets. They are being very veey aggresive in renewables until then to make that happen
China is building more coal plants but they're burning slightly less coal. They can do that because they're not Capitalists, so the fact that it's less economical doesn't matter to them if it meets their goals. These new plants are definitely stranded assets. For the US that would need massive government subsidies, in China they can just decide it shall be so.
> us is currently at pre-WWI levels
This involves quite a lot of sleight of hand which I'll generously assume you didn't understand. Firstly the measure you're thinking of per capita rates, whereas the Greenhouse Effect only cares about total emissions which are of course enormously higher; Secondly this requires carefully choosing a brief window ("pre-WW1") when the US used almost only coal, producing a tremendous amount of CO2 for its relatively small population; Thirdly it just entirely ignores the amount of off-shoring everything anybody else makes and then ships to the US is magically carbon-free under this thinking.
They're building everything. Built more solar in 2025 than the US has in total, almost the same for wind, and currently building 36 nuclear plants. Also building more coal but coal usage is going down.
You realize that “the west” is not just the United States, right? There are plenty of western countries around the world where EV sales are exploding. The Nordic countries and Australia come immediately to mind.
Australia has also seen an immense uptake in residential solar and batteries, driven by tariff-free imports from China.
It's less an industry thing and more a war thing. US wants to fight more wars and for that you need a plentiful supply of portable energy that other countries can't block. For physical wars that's petroleum fuels. By controlling "Greater North America" they can secure their cheap fuel supply and hunker down here. Investing in green energy would de-emphasize the infrastructure you need to process and use massive amounts of oil for cheap.
"the West" geographically yes but the Australian public is hoovering up EVs right now.
Whoever hits the right window on an electric ute is going to make bank (it's probably more about getting another battery price reduction at this point so you can throw energy at the aerodynamics and range issues).
I feel like most of the people I know (Americans) don't truly realize how utterly dense and populuated Chinese cities are.
I think about my home city (6th largest in the US) with its singular interstate looping around our metro area - and Beijing has five of these ring roads on top of having a far more robust public transportation system and tons of scooter/bike usage still.
A single carmaker outselling all of US-made electric vehicles is just normal especially given the prices of these cars (down to something like $8000 USD) and the fact that they live in such dense areas that don't require you to drive 20 miles just to, for eg, get to a Costco or something. So you can have these ultracheap cars with maybe twice the range of lithium-powered golf carts and not spend a ton of money on it along with having 5x the population.
One bellweather reason for this state being impressive is that this is china's domestic market demonstrating the buying power needed to fuel private innovation
This used to be something only the US could do. China always had the population. But it wasnt rich enough to create local demand. Now it can and that creates a flywheel effect of feuling its own innovation, like EVs, LLMs, reusable rockets, sattelite ISPs, and all the other thingsthe US prides itself on.
And eventually it might even make novel things the US or anyone else hasnt even made yet. If that happens then the american empire is truly over
BYD is also expected to export 2.5 million vehicles outside China this year. They are the largest manufacturer of EVs in the world, and not just for the Chinese market.
In my opinion, the core concept is simple: China is a big market that's getting wealthier and BYD makes cheap and innovative cars.
Owning a vehicle is going from a luxury for wealthy people in China to a more every-day thing, driving huge volumes. Meanwhile the rest of the world (US excluded for now) is trying to electrify personal transportation, and China is meeting that demand better than any other country.
There is no logical reason to ban vehicles except protectionism and protection of manufacturing capability domestically. There is no security risk from Chinese EVs that requires a full ban.
EVs connect to people's home wifi and they are probably the most powerful compute on the network. You claim to be Infosec, yet cannot fathom any issues here?
The thing about protectionism is that sometimes it works. Also China is definitely not playing any kind of a fair game. Also adding another supply chain dependency is definitely a geopolitical risk.
> There is no security risk from Chinese EVs that requires a full ban.
Just because you're not paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to [map] you.
Of course there is a risk to allowing networked automobile sensor packages on your streets if they're feeding a potential adversary live info on everything going on on and around your roads. Denying this isn't virtuous or smart or benevolent, it is at the best naïve.
Disagree... they're a lot more integrated than other cars, meaning less parts in a way, which is cheaper to buy, but much more expensive to repair later.
Consumers want protection from cars they can't afford to fix.
Insurance companies want protection from costly warranty repairs.
Mechanics want protection from cheap highly-integrated gatekept parts that they can't work on, and/or won't get paid as much for.
>Consumers want protection from cars they can't afford to fix.
Said who ? If it's under warranty for long enough and cheap enough then I don't really care even if I have to fully replace it in 5 years and sell for scrap. Without tariffs that's what the price would be.
Are you suggesting consumers want cars they can't fix?
They may regret it when the battery dies and it's a $20k repair because they're actually structural components on those cars. Or a single $20 sensor dies that's part of a larger non-serviceable $5k component.
And that's why we're banning American-made Teslas, where denting the rear bumper requires replacing the entire back of the car because of all the sensors and cameras baked in. Right?
I don't think that's a concern sufficient to ban import. Why not impose requirements for spare parts manufacturing and modularity?
Again, if they wanted to work in the interest of affordability and electric vehicle promotion, they would. They're being protectionist for Ford and GM.
I mean, right, but the word "protectionism" isn't the end of the argument. US-China trade relations are conducted in the context of the extremely serious problem that one day not too long from now China will rupture them by invading Taiwan. The US has to protect itself from that.
https://financeliterate.blog/can-fender-bender-total-car-ins...
Federal subsidies were eliminated. Funding for charging infrastructure and battery manufacturing was rolled back. ICE emission regulations were repealed. Individual states were barred from enforcing their own standards. EVs are down to 6% share of new vehicles sold.
Most domestic manufacturers have given up on EVs entirely and written off their investments. Tesla is the only one standing, and their US sales have also been falling for the last couple years.
Looking back 2024 is probably going to be the peak of the US EV market.
> Federal subsidies were eliminated. Funding for charging infrastructure and battery manufacturing was rolled back.
These are both signs of a maturing market. It's a good thing that DCFC operators like Ionna, Walmart, etc. are still charging ahead at a pretty rapid pace, even without federal funding. Ionna especially has been deploying at a crazy speed.
> Individual states were barred from enforcing their own standards.
Litigation on this is still playing out. If car manufacturers aren't planning for these to swing back into force with a change of government, they are fooling themselves.
> Most domestic manufacturers have given up on EVs entirely and written off their investments.
Again, not true. Some investments like battery manufacturing, sure, but that's not what they were ever good at. GM has a pretty robust line of EVs, and Ford has bet big on their new platform underpinning on their new 'affordable' truck.
> Tesla is the only one standing, and their US sales have also been falling for the last couple years.
2023 was a stand out year for them, but it's not like they are falling off a cliff. We should expect Tesla sales to fall as other competitors like Rivian, Hyundai/Kia and even Toyota/Subaru release updated offerings.
Every once in a while people ask about cost and discover that for most people charging in your garage is significantly cheaper than anything else and charging on the road is still cheaper than gas and while it does take longer it's not too bad.
And as was pointed out, there is every reason to believe that there'll be a change in administration in the federal level in a few years. And once again, the rules will change. The car manufacturers are going to keep building what they know and have good investments in. But they're going to keep investing in EVs both because in the world they're important players and also because they know the government will change and with it their rules and they don't want to be left behind.
Hmm. 16 million cars sold in the US each year. 1.2 million EVs sold each year. "Maturing" at less than 8% market share is not a good sign.
> Litigation on this is still playing out...these to swing back into force with a change of government
Have you not lived in the US, like ever? It will take anywhere from approximately a decade to never to claw back even a fraction of an progressive legislation or regulation.
> We should expect Tesla sales to fall...when [vague new things come out]
Falling sales is sign of market maturity?
For comparison, that number is 53% in China and 60-70% in most European countries. In Norway 97% of new sales are EVs.
Because a lot of Americans lacks financial literacy (i.e. everyone buying a brand new ICE vehicle).
Even before that godforsaken war it made no financial sense at all to buy an ICE vehicle for most purposes. Now with that war and its effects wrecking the fossil fuel markets, it's even worse.
I think that's the thing being pointed out...
They didn’t put money to rip out existing infrastructure and funding (let’s not give them ideas). It’s future EV charging growth and maintenance that will be affected, and its impact will be felt years from now.
Their new one is very interesting. I wanted an electric truck when I bought my most recent one but just couldn't afford it. If it's 30k for the base, figure 40k with bells and whistles. That makes it super attainable with a decent trade.
We produce a lot of oil in the US: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_oil_extra...
They’ve been boasting about American oil companies having higher profits.
Our lucky streak as America—Russia blowing itself up, China going wolf warrior right when they needed to build alliances—may continue in our wannabe fascist being so fucking stupid.
You are decidedly not on a lucky streak.
Your Dear Leader just threw the US into yet another incompetently waged war on the other side of the world, he tore apart bridges with virtually all allies the US had, including Canada of all places, his reckless usage of his powers to influence corporate decisions (i.e. the ICC sanctions and DoD/Musk throttling Starlink/Starshield for Ukraine) made everyone realize they need their own alternatives not beholden to the US for literally anything, the AI bubble growing uncontrollably while the QE money injections never got taken out of the system is setting you up for a financial disaster that will make 2007 look tame...
For all the talk about data and technology sovereignty in Europe about USA tech, you would think they would take that more seriously too. Instead Europe is flooded with underpriced Chinese cars that they have no control over.
And then he spent the rest of the review talking about all the features that people typically hated on, but in a positive light. Because if your primary goal is to make the cheapest car, with the highest fuel economy, for the benefit of people who don't have a whole lot of spending money, those were exactly the design compromises to be making.
In Australia, EVs are now 25% of the new car market, that's far from a small minority.
And sure a used Toyota Yaris might be cheaper for now but it won't be for long. A new Yaris starts from around $30k, you can buy multiple new EVs for cheaper than that. Which has caused downward prices on used EVs, you can buy a 2nd hand Nissan leaf for $6500.
And due to our abundance of rooftop solar much of Australia have access to domestic electricity plans that have hours of free usage a day, meaning if you can charge at home you can charge for free which really pushes the value proposition further
Other people can't fathom why people buy Android phones instead of Apple.
When American companies cut costs we call it innovation.
Maybe their more expensive models are better but they're damaging their brand putting it on those cars.
Because that's the point. It's a cheap reliable car that cut corners for high $$$ ROI fleet cars. There's reason most of PRC taxi fleet converted to BYD EVs over last 10 years. It's statistically battle proven and economical, they'll 500,000km like ICE fleet cars and save 30k USD - on fuel + maintenance savings alone you can buy another 2 fleet BYDs. Like a fleet operator would have to be economically stupid to not go for BYD tier EV. You get to enjoy cheap seats.
Toyota interiors in particular are hard plastic monstrosities.
I get not liking something for personal preference reasons, but going as far as garbage and cheap quality in this case just... doesn't match reality. It's a perfectly fine car that works. Lots of people are happy with it.
Have you priced a similar car like a Toyota vios or Yaris or Honda hrv or brv. These are ICE and gas is what, in the Philippines 2$.gallon?
The only viable alternative that is non Chinese for South east Asia is ironically Vinfast, which are available in the USA and quite ibexpensively.
If you’re biggest claim is the “sear” and the “trunk bedding” you are missing the entire point of what this car is and it’s market position.
But hey, this is how propaganda works.
My Sealion 7 is nicer than my C-Class Mercedes.
(That approximately nobody outside the US really cares about)
Multi-day backpacking trips rarely exceed 60lbs, and even that is way too much- the recommendation is 14–18 kg max for most people.
For BYD, a Dolphin 2027 for 21K + VAT. Insane value, by extreme far the best price-perf vehicle in the country’s history. Has every single little thing you might want. For that size and price, at least.
Notably, Tesla is attempting to destabilize the local market, coming in at 30K+VAT for the Premium Model Y which is cheaper than the US, Europe and pretty much anywhere.
I still prefer BYD by far, and not supporting the “controversial fellow”.
At a 20x electricity to gas price ratio (depending on factors, but yes), EVs are key here.
Not everyone likes to blow 50-100 grand on an asset which loses 50% of its value in 3 years. Especially considering how much they're trending toward being so expensive to repair and unreliable that keeping it on the road after the warranty runs out is also expensive.
There's little point in spending more than $ 40,000 - especially for the crap currently being peddled in the U.S. I bought a 3-year-old electric luxury SUV with significantly under 20,000 miles for well under that.
I mean, if you're rolling in money, and don't need it for savings or more important purposes, you do you. But I'm with GP. 40,000 is excessive. Even in our devalued 2026 money.
Still needs a step change upgrade on the battery tech
https://www.carscoops.com/2026/03/tariffs-kill-kias-hottest-...
The article is talking about a certain specialty model that's only produced in Korea, probably because it's low volume.
Not clear to me why they started it with such low inventory, but I ended up getting a new Leaf since I couldn't wait another bunch of months.
Markets elsewhere that consolidated down to the 2 or 3 domestic champions that settled into a comfortable coexistence with their domestic "competition", and are coddled by protectionist government policy will have a hard time remembering how to compete for real.
If it isn't, it's certainly an advantage over the trashy EVs we have in America.
For example, the original VW Beetle from 1938 was sold in Mexico up until 2003.
And even models that are sold in different regions may lack some safety features in other regions: e.g. https://www.latinncap.com/en/result/44/chevrolet-spark-no-ai...
Of course time will tell whether this brings failure rate down to be negligible. But I feel pretty confident.
They're not bad when you're in them but they're not amazing either. The thing is: they're incredibly good value compared to other brand new cars.
But the interior of a great many german cars (for example) is still qualitatively not just a bit but way above BYD.
In fact that's my problem with all EVs because EVEN Lexus, Acura, and Genesis is not sticking to their premium quality when they release an EV version of their ICE cars. The Lexus ES ICE is legendary. The Lexus ES EV looks like a plastic coffin with 2 tablets. It's probably the zeigeist of car designs and/or my taste but I feel all EVs look the same without much personality. Not even mentioning the chinese brands because Geely, Leapmotor, BYD etc all look the same to me.
Say we have a Lexus LX 600 https://www.lexus.com/models/LX Why does this car can't be released as is, the same design and same interior but with an EV drivetrain?
My extended family has three EVs now, and they're fucking great for our needs. They get us to where we need to go, and save us at least $350 a month in fuel.
Having said that, we're in the exact scenario pocket where EVs make sense: We can charge at home overnight, our daily commutes are 50km maximum, we have solar panels and cheap overnight electricity rates, we don't need to tow anything pretty much ever.
EVs are less niche than they were, but they're still not as commodity/utility friendly as ICE cars, but the niche is growing quickly. Interestingly, the haters I've encountered rapidly soften when they actually experience driving in an EV - they're still a ways away from looking to buy one for themselves, but they're noticeably less militantly/irrationally opposed than they were.
Caveat: 1 of the EVs is a 2014 Nissan Leaf, which is at about 80% of its original range. The other two are less than a year old Chinese EVs, and so I can't and won't speak to long term reliability - that's definitely a risk we were willing to take, and won't know whether it was worth it until a few years down the track.
I would encourage anyone that lives in America or Europe and hasn't been to China in the past five years to go see it for yourself. Take what western media writes with a grain of salt - you might be surprised.
I think it's a huge regression vs. the goofy looking i3 (which is carbon fiber, has a working jog wheel, etc). The i4 is basically exactly a modern BMW sedan, but an EV. I think they moved to a platform that lets them just switch between ICE, hybrid and EV. You can even set the safety tone to make it sound like a BMW with tuned exhaust pipes.
thats because there is zero demand as has been all over the news the past years. the european and especially german car industry wasted billions on EV strategies that now have to be rewound because it turns out there is basically zero demand for expensive EVs. people that can afford expensive cars want ICE.
I imagine it's just a fundamentally more palatable compromise for an ICE vehicle. You maybe bump the size of the fuel tank a bit and assume your clientele aren't going to be all that much more cost sensitive about fuel than they are about sticker price and maintenance.
The Lucid gravity is in the same discussion.
Lexus is releasing the TZ which is the equivalent to the TX gasser.
Porsche Taycan.
BYD is having another ten car carriers built to support growing exports. They’ll be the world‘s biggest auto maker in the next five years.
BYD expands EV shipping fleet as wars upend freight costs and key trade routes - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=50333037 - November 2026
- The world’s largest electric vehicle maker will expand its fleet of car-carrying cargo ships to 18 from eight by 2029, according to shipping industry reports. Each new carrier will have the capacity to carry about 9,200 cars and will be built by China Merchants Industry.
- Owning its fleet could cut BYD’s cost to ship each car abroad by as much as 40% compared with renting carriers, according to one industry estimate. BYD’s increasing export capacity could help it push further into global markets, intensifying competition for automakers including Tesla and traditional U.S. brands.
https://cnevpost.com/2026/09/07/byd-targets-2-5-million-over...
- BYD aims to sell more than 2.5 million vehicles overseas in 2027, extending its rapid international growth through a larger shipping fleet and increased production abroad
- Its Indonesian plant has started production, its Brazilian plant is ramping toward annual capacity of 300,000 vehicles, and its Hungarian plant is expected to begin assembly in November or December, Deutsche Bank noted.
TL;DR They severely reduced the number of components by integrating parts into larger pieces. This trades upfront cost savings for longevity concerns and repair prices down the road.
One could argue the US wants to ban them solely because it undercuts other manufacturers, but there's more.
You can also argue it's not good for many other people, like:
- the average consumer (that expects a quality long-lasting product)
- the insurance companies that will be footing a lot of the repair bills
- independent repair shops that either won't get those jobs, cannot actually perform the work due to tech/service monopolies, or simply lose revenue because the work is shorter
There are also third-party replacements available now, because it's not that hard to manufacture most EV components, outside the critical high-voltage paths.
No amount of fucking banning will work and the US is going to end up with egg on its face when the entire world is using chinese everything and the US is still trying to banhammer. The entire world has started shifting away from the US, not in a positive isolationist way -- in an uncompetitive, stagnating innovation way.
The only way out is through competition and this lesson will probably only be learned when its too late to do anything about it. Everybody saw this coming
It's not clear to me where Canada stands on this issue. I know they're an exporter of fuel to the US, so perhaps they are more US aligned on this? Sadly, I think this highlights the problem with Carney's middle powers idea - it's difficult to all work together when you have competing interests.
Tesla's have been around the place for a while, but are also increasingly present, but are a greatly decreasing percentage of EVs.
Relevant stats: https://solarcalculator.com.au/blog/ev-sales-statistics/
but the federal and ontario governments want to protect the auto industry in southern ontario
we did just let in something like 50,000 chinese vehicles this year though
The west? You mean the USA. Europe is happy to leave the past behind.
Citation needed.
> us is currently at pre-WWI levels
This involves quite a lot of sleight of hand which I'll generously assume you didn't understand. Firstly the measure you're thinking of per capita rates, whereas the Greenhouse Effect only cares about total emissions which are of course enormously higher; Secondly this requires carefully choosing a brief window ("pre-WW1") when the US used almost only coal, producing a tremendous amount of CO2 for its relatively small population; Thirdly it just entirely ignores the amount of off-shoring everything anybody else makes and then ships to the US is magically carbon-free under this thinking.
Google says that in the last 5 years China has increased renewable from 464 GW to 1,840 GW
And fossil fuels from 1,250 GW to ~1,590 GW
So given they are increasing the mix of renewables I'm not sure doubling down on renewables is a good phrase
https://www.forbes.com/sites/katharinabuchholz/2026/02/27/ch...
https://decarb.co/us-carbon-emissions-per-capita-a-20-year-t...
I was wondering why you said doubling down and then said the US were increasing their renewable mix when China is doing that as well.
You obviously know the per capita emissions are lower from China because your WWI reference is to per capita.
To be honest there are a few red flags in the comment we've replied to if you know what I mean
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/annual-co2-emissions-per-...
Australia has also seen an immense uptake in residential solar and batteries, driven by tariff-free imports from China.
Whoever hits the right window on an electric ute is going to make bank (it's probably more about getting another battery price reduction at this point so you can throw energy at the aerodynamics and range issues).
I think about my home city (6th largest in the US) with its singular interstate looping around our metro area - and Beijing has five of these ring roads on top of having a far more robust public transportation system and tons of scooter/bike usage still.
A single carmaker outselling all of US-made electric vehicles is just normal especially given the prices of these cars (down to something like $8000 USD) and the fact that they live in such dense areas that don't require you to drive 20 miles just to, for eg, get to a Costco or something. So you can have these ultracheap cars with maybe twice the range of lithium-powered golf carts and not spend a ton of money on it along with having 5x the population.
This used to be something only the US could do. China always had the population. But it wasnt rich enough to create local demand. Now it can and that creates a flywheel effect of feuling its own innovation, like EVs, LLMs, reusable rockets, sattelite ISPs, and all the other thingsthe US prides itself on.
And eventually it might even make novel things the US or anyone else hasnt even made yet. If that happens then the american empire is truly over
In my opinion, the core concept is simple: China is a big market that's getting wealthier and BYD makes cheap and innovative cars.
Owning a vehicle is going from a luxury for wealthy people in China to a more every-day thing, driving huge volumes. Meanwhile the rest of the world (US excluded for now) is trying to electrify personal transportation, and China is meeting that demand better than any other country.
Just because you're not paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to [map] you.
Of course there is a risk to allowing networked automobile sensor packages on your streets if they're feeding a potential adversary live info on everything going on on and around your roads. Denying this isn't virtuous or smart or benevolent, it is at the best naïve.
They don't need to ban a nation's cars, they need to set safety standards.
But they want cars to be trackable by their own systems, so they don't want the public getting reacquainted with privacy protection.
Consumers want protection from cars they can't afford to fix.
Insurance companies want protection from costly warranty repairs.
Mechanics want protection from cheap highly-integrated gatekept parts that they can't work on, and/or won't get paid as much for.
Said who ? If it's under warranty for long enough and cheap enough then I don't really care even if I have to fully replace it in 5 years and sell for scrap. Without tariffs that's what the price would be.
They may regret it when the battery dies and it's a $20k repair because they're actually structural components on those cars. Or a single $20 sensor dies that's part of a larger non-serviceable $5k component.
Again, if they wanted to work in the interest of affordability and electric vehicle promotion, they would. They're being protectionist for Ford and GM.